Kim Golden has already had a busy year. She released her most recent full novel, Maybe Baby, began her new serial novella Maybe Tonight, and is currently at work on a third book in the series. If you don't usually read women's fiction, now is the time to begin, and Kim is where you want to start. Maybe Baby follows Laney, an American expat in her thirties living in Stockholm with her Swedish boyfriend Niklas. Laney has just realized that she'd like to have a child, and Niklas has just revealed that he's had a vasectomy that he doesn't want to reverse. With that, Laney's off to Copenhagen to check out a sperm bank with some slightly unorthodox methods, which is where she meets Mads.
Think you know what's going to happen? I admit that I did, too--until I started reading.
What makes Kim's success even more compelling is that she publishes under her own imprint and does the vast majority of the work--which extends well beyond writing the actual book--herself. Kim lives in Stockholm, where she is the love refugee of her husband Tord. You may recognize her and her writing from an earlier post in The Loyalty of Water; read on for a glimpse into her process, imagination, and plans for the future.
Interview edited for clarity.
Emily: First off, it's been really exciting to see from here how well Maybe Baby has been doing. Did you expect this? And where is it today? What's been the best placement on Amazon?
Kim: No, I didn't expect it at all! I hoped that people would like it, but I was more worried that people would hate the infidelity storyline. Today it's at #18 on the Kindle Bestsellers List for African-American Women's Fiction. The highest it's been was #8. I think if I do a bit more marketing, it'll be back up again.
Emily: You know, that's not a reaction I ever had...even though I would in real life. Have you run into that before in anything else you've written? Or is that something that's often a third rail with readers? For me, at least, part of why it didn’t bother me was just how Niklas was drawn. I did feel his pain, but it was also apparent that he had been living his life without making any real effort on behalf of Laney for a long time.
Kim: People who read romance novels often swear by these unwritten rules and one of them is that the hero or heroine must not cheat. But, since Maybe Baby isn't a romance, I didn't care about that rule. There were still some people who bitched about it. With Snowbound, there were readers who completely flipped out about the infidelity there.
Emily: So then that actually leads well into the next question--how would you categorize this book, if you had to? What's the technical marketing term du jour?
Kim: It's women's fiction. Even though it's a love story, it's not just about the HEA (the happily ever after)--Laney's on a journey to figure out her life. I didn't want Niklas to be a villain. He's a bit self-centered, used to living his life his way and Laney has let him get away with not making any concessions towards her.
Emily: Exactly. Comfortable, loving up to a point, very happy to welcome someone into his well-appointed life...so long as things remain just-so. And maybe it's that I've spent some time in Stockholm, but that particular personality trait felt very familiar…
Kim: I know...I have met too many expats who've lived that sort of life.
Emily: Do you think it's particular to Sweden? To being an expat, so that leaving a relationship just means more? More loss, that is...losing your place in a culture and country?
Kim: No, I think it's probably pretty common for most expats. You move to be with someone else who has already established a life, and--unless you both move someplace where you're both rootless, one of you will always have that comfortable life while the other is left trying to figure out everything and feeling lost in translation.
Emily: A lot of your writing, I've noticed, seems to center around that question of where home is—and, more to the point, who home is.
Kim: I think I end up writing about it a lot because I always felt like an observer in my family. I was the middle child who was often left to her own devices. I was the book nerd. Sometimes I didn't feel like I belonged. And I think it's that feeling I end up adding to some of my characters.
Emily: Dislocation and what you do with that It's definitely a feeling that I think a lot of people can relate to these days.
Kim: This idea of losing place in one's own culture and country is one of the hardest things with being an expat. You feel lost; you have no real place in where you used to come from and where you are now. You have to find that person who makes you feel home again. I went through it when I first moved here. I still have moments when I feel not quite at home in Sweden—especially if I am here on my own and Tord is away.
Emily: I know the feeling, though I haven't ever experienced it for so long, and many of my moves have been within the States, though that can get weird. I will definitely say that China, for me, was quite different from Sweden, and part of it was just that I so obviously did not belong. Laney points to that at one point. When she asks if it will matter that she's black, and Mads just brushes it off, kind of like why would that ever be an issue.
Kim: Yes, Mads doesn't get it. I had a similar experience when I first visited here. I asked Tord if he'd told his friends and family I was black and he said it didn't matter. But--of course he can say that, he is of this culture and no one will ever question it.
Emily: You mentioned once to me that it's gotten a bit better. But then, since I've left, I've heard about a few skinhead rallies, etc., but we're not exactly straightened out in that area here, either.
Kim: It has gotten better. People here are more used to being around foreigners. But with the rise of Sveriges Demokraterna now, I am worried we are slipping back into the old ways.
Emily: How is it different, being an American expat who cannot "pass," as it were, for Swedish vs being a black woman in the States (and yes, I know I just threw a dissertation-length question at you). And on that note, an easy parallel within your work would be Mia in Snowbound, coming from Vermont, vs. Laney in Stockholm.
Kim: Hehe! I don't mind dissertation length questions. It's weird sometimes. Often people assume I am a tourist. Other times, they want to dissect every aspect of American racism while denying the racism that exists here in Sweden. The worst part is when they treat you like an afterthought simply because they assume you are an African refugee, and--when they hear you speak American English—they suddenly change their tune and want to be your best friend. I've learned to ignore it, but it still rankles sometimes.
Emily: People do feel more comfortable when they think they know the story (And yes, I ran into that "but we're not racists like Americans" often. It was...amusing at best?) In your work, I see that playing out just comparing Mia and Laney, and I really appreciated that you threw in another layer of complexity by adding Jake.
Kim: When I wrote Snowbound, I wanted Jake to be South African, but not the stereotypical white South African that everyone expects. I wanted him to be someone who grew up on the cusp of SA as apartheid ended and the new era began.
Emily: And yet still left, for one reason or another? Or at least, does not return home after his tour.
Kim: In Jake's case, I think it was that the South Africa he returned to left him feeling lost. He didn't know where his place was anymore. And so he goes back on the road again, chasing another war, taking more photographs and keeping a distance from his emotions. He and Mia are two lost souls really.
Emily: So what did you learn writing Snowbound that you brought to Maybe Baby? I definitely enjoyed Snowbound, especially the characters, but there was something about how seamlessly Maybe Baby was constructed that really impressed me--especially as I did not know, even 70% of the way through, what would happen in the end.
Kim: I wrote Snowbound with an outline that I ended up ignoring after a while. I just let the story take me where it wanted to go. When I wrote Maybe Baby, I decided to have a better outline--one that had more specific plot points I wanted to consider + locations, so I could orientate myself while I was writing. I think too that while I was writing Maybe Baby, it started to play in my head like a movie. I relied a lot on my Pinterest inspiration board and looked for images that would inspire certain scenes. I really wanted to capture this feeling that some people are fated to meet.
Emily: It really felt like you hit your stride there, from the beginning. Everything that happened felt inevitable, even the strange coincidences. And speaking of that... I have to ask about the cryogenics place, because that was both amazing and ridiculous, but just believable enough!
Kim: When I decided on the sperm bank storyline, I started researching different types of fertility clinics. I found one in Denmark that would send you videos of possible donors but you couldn't meet the donors. Then I was talking to a friend in the US who said they should make fertility clinics like speed dating sessions so you can quickly decide if that person is the right donor--and that's when I decided to make Copenhagen Cryo a clinic that would set up the meetings with donors like mingles... it's the perfect "what if" moment.
Emily: I loved it. It also makes weird sense—given how often a photo doesn't do justice to a family resemblance I know you're also writing more pieces from the perspective of different characters, and I really want to know more about the woman who runs it, Ida, because she seems to have her own agenda throughout, and we only get glimpses of it.
Kim: Ida is one of the client service facilitators and, for her, it's all about the commission she gets when she makes sure people sign a contract.
Emily: Ahhh, so Mads is on her bad side from the beginning--or would be, if she knew. Which I'm actually curious about as well . That's one of the most interesting parts of his character to me, and the one that I would have the hardest time with, were I Laney (can you tell I just read the beginning of Maybe Tonight?) I completely get that he would begin donating due to money issues, but it's a huge leap to actually...provide donations via housecall.
Kim: Hah! Yeah, that house call...he only did it because he really felt sorry for the couple--but it made him feel dirty afterwards. It's something I take up in Maybe Tonight, the serial novella told from Mads's point of view. Ida and Mads have known each other for a while. They grew up together outside of Copenhagen, they had a fling when they were younger and she still has a bit of a crush on him but he doesn't see her that way.
Emily: Don’t tell the Scandinavians I said this, but coming from the States—sitting here in my home state of 38 million people—some of the accidental meetings, etc., are far more believable to me happening over there. That's another thing I felt like you really used well—how connected these small Scandinavian cities/countries actually are.
Kim: You know, it's something you never think about when you first move here--how close everything is. The distances just aren't as vast as what we're used to.
Emily: And people really do form their social circles very early on in life and maintain them. That's what we were most struck by. The Swedes we met and got to know were either married to foreigners or had spent significant time abroad.
Kim: They do! It's one of the things I've had to explain to American friends who don't understand how to socialize with Scandinavians.
Emily: I honestly didn't figure it out myself in the time I was there--it seems to require a way in of a very particular type—language, I'm sure, being a huge part of it, which Laney does have.
Kim: It does. The average Scandinavian will most likely marry someone they've known all their lives.
Emily: I LOVED that initial scene where Niklas is worried about the cabbie listening in, and neither of them realize at first that the odds of him understanding are nill.
Kim: Exactly! That happens with us sometimes. We'll speak Swedish to one another and forget we're doing it and whisper because we don't want people to hear, and then we realize the chances of anyone in Philly understanding us are not very high.
Emily: So what's different, then, about Mads and the others who buck that trend? There are quite a few whom I did meet, and I know you know some well.
Kim: I think what's different about Mads is that he grew up in a multicultural neighbourhood, so he was used to being around people who weren't ethnically Danish. And he left Copenhagen and studied in Sweden at Konstfack--which might not seem like a big deal with a Scandinavian, but I've met a few Danes who live here and they say they feel like fish out of water here in Stockholm. No one understands Danish in Stockholm, it's not like in Skåne where they are used to watching Danish TV or just crossing the bridge and spending the day in Copenhagen.
Emily: One more question before I hit the next topic--how long did it take you to get to that point, linguistically? And Laney? I found it difficult to learn, even being quick with languages, simply because people don't want to speak it to you, but I'm sure being married to an American was a severe handicap.
Kim: It took me around two years to feel like I could really use the Swedish language. Tord and I always spoke English together. And it was his parents who helped me learn Swedish, plus I used a Swedish-English dictionary and Metro to learn to read Swedish. After about two years, I realized I could actually understand people and answer them. And then I started eavesdropping on people in cafés. It's amazing what people talk about when they think you can't understand them.
Emily: So why bring in Copenhagen, then, given your understanding of Stockholm? I loved the jetting between cities, personally. What made you decide to do it?
Kim: I think I chose to show the contrast between Stockholm and Copenhagen because there is something so formal about Stockholm that you don't really get in Copenhagen. CPH is much mellower than Stockholm, people seem more casual there.
Emily: Yes, it is a very ordered city, where people follow the rules, but no one will tell you the rules, and then people get very aggravated when you don't follow the rules, too. It really came across in the book—aided by the great descriptions of Niklas's apartment, which was clearly HIS place, not theirs.
Kim: Exactly! And when I started creating Laney, I imagined her stumbling on these ridiculous unwritten rules and being frustrated by them.
Emily: What I really want to know is how her cousin hasn't gotten herself locked up in rule-breaking jail yet!
Kim: Eddy gets away with it because people just think she is the cool New Yorker--and I've noticed that if Stockholmers think you are beautiful and cool you can break *any* rule. I've seen it with some of my friends here. All they have to do is say they're from places Stockholmers think are cool (LA, London, NYC) and be beautiful, and no one blinks an eye when they break rules. And Eddy uses that, plus she's got lots of confidence.
Emily: And yet there are clearly hints that things aren't quite what they seem... I’m definitely looking forward to reading her story.
Kim: Very true! Eddy likes to act more confident than she really is.
Emily: But—in the interest of time, I have to ask about the business side of things. First, how's it going? That is, what has it involved for this book, in particular? Self publishing sounds very overwhelming to me, and yet it seems to be working beautifully for this project, so I'm very curious to know what steps you've been taking (besides the obvious first one, which you’ve got handled: write a good book).
Kim: So far, so good. I'm trying to keep track of my sales so I can decide when I can finally begin writing fiction full-time. It might still be a while yet, but the success of Maybe Baby thus far gives me hope.
Emily: What made you make this jump over to self publishing?
Kim: The most important thing was wanting to be self-sufficient. I was tired of going through the whole submission process and either never getting answers from editors and agents or being told my writing was "too difficult to sell". I got to the point I felt like I had to prove them wrong.
Emily: What I find so funny is that MFA programs tend to be so focused on literary fiction to the exclusion of everything else, and yet, it's everything else that's doing the best in self-publishing, by all metrics that I've yet seen.
Kim: I was lucky--I managed to have a thesis advisor who wrote sci-fi/fantasy/mystery and graphic novels. He told me to write what I liked to read rather than what the critics say I should write. So I switched from literary fiction to women's fiction/upscale chick lit from a multicultural angle.
Emily: What did you write when you did write literary fiction? And why does your current genre speak to you so much more effectively?
Kim: I wrote about relationships, but those stories were so dark and depressing. Everyone ended up broken and unhappy or wandering into woods and disappearing.
Emily: Ha! I do love that last line. That feels so very appropriate—especially to Scandinavian literary fiction.
Kim: Someone once told me they thought all the characters in my lit fiction were on the verge of killing themselves because the stories were so depressing—and they were depressing. Then I decided to write something that felt lighter, and loved it. And I haven't stopped since then. Even if there are moments in my writing when people are completely muddled, you don't feel like they are going to off themselves. They just need to figure things out.
Emily: What would you recommend to someone considering self-publishing? What would be a must-do and what would be a hell-no-don't?
Kim: They should invest in a good editor and a good cover designer. The editor will help them whip their work into shape. I've made the mistake of self-editing but you become blind to your own mistakes. And a good cover designer is a must! I see way too many tacky looking covers that put me off ever reading the authors, no matter how good their books may be. And then, if you don't know how to format, buy good templates from some place like Joel Friedlander's Book Design Template site. When I decided I was ready to publish Maybe Baby, I decided to be a bit more structured than I was with Snowbound. I found a production company that could help me with finding beta readers, editors and proofreaders, and they worked with a cover designer I'd used in the past. This meant I could focus more on rewrites rather than trying to track down the help I needed.
Emily: What have you been doing to promote this book ?
Kim: I've been using my blog, Goodreads, Facebook, and Twitter to promote the book. I've also had some help from other writers who read Maybe Baby and loved it and have been talking it up in Social Media.
Emily: Is there any one thing you do that leads to better results, or a better bump, than anything else? I feel like it's both a blessing and a curse that we can track data so closely...
Kim: I post the sales rankings and encourage people to spread the word, to help keep me in the Top 20 and it seems to be working.
Emily: I know you're not yet at a point where this is all you can do, but does that feel realistic, given what's happening now? Is selling via your own imprint and on Amazon something that's paying off at all? (The idea of writing actually paying enough...wow!)
Kim: I think sharing what inspired me while writing Maybe Baby helped—I posted links to the inspiration board, I posted character interviews on my blog, I posted links to the playlists I listened to while writing and people really seemed to like this. Plus, getting good reviews has helped. With each 4-star or 5-star review, the sales increase.
Emily: The AWP conference was interesting this year—some people loved to talk about how much amazon would make you, how much it could help, etc. Others, not so much.
Kim: It's starting to pay off, which pleases me. I know it will be a while before I can finally write full-time, but with each sale I feel like I am coming closer to my goal. And when I think of how little traditionally published authors receive from publishing houses, I feel like I'd rather take my chances, make my own mistakes and have a bigger piece of the pie for myself. Not everyone likes Amazon, but they are the company that really helped self-publishing flourish.
Emily: How does the paperback side of things work? I think most people can at least imagine how a digital book gets to a digital reader.
Kim: I use CreateSpace for the paperback side of it, and the books are distributed by their partners in the US and EU. But I sell more ebooks than paperbacks. I considered not doing a paperback but I know there are people who don't use readers and I wanted them to be able to read Maybe Baby as well.
Emily: Have you been able to get local shops to carry the paperback?
Kim: I'm going to Copenhagen in a few weeks to see about getting it in local shops there. And the online bookstores here carry Snowbound. I'm also trying to get it in local bookshops here in Stockholm, but it's been hard so far. Now though, I have sales figures that can help me, so it should be easier from this point forward. In fact, tomorrow I am heading to English Bookshop to talk to them about a reading + selling Maybe Baby.
Emily: And what's next content wise? I bought Maybe Tonight and read what is there—but will more appear? And Eddy's story?
Kim: More will appear with Maybe Tonight. Every few weeks you'll get 3-5 new chapters. When I originally started writing Maybe Baby, I planned on having alternating points of view--from Laney and Mads. Early on, I realized it was solely Laney's story, so I set aside all of the chapters I'd started from Mads's POV. Now, I've published eight chapters of Maybe Tonight—but I ran into some problems. And these problems are caused by hold-ups with Kindle Direct Publishing and Kobo. When I update, they tell me the file is live, but then it turns out they don't notify people who've already bought the first chapters that there's an updated file available. And it could take up to an extra month for them to notify readers that I've updated a file. So now I've started a blog for it (www.maybetonightnovella.com) and I've uploaded all 8 chapters there for readers who cannot access them via Kindle or Kobo. I will keep updating it until Mads's story is complete. I keep getting a lot of mail from people about Mads. Apparently he is the perfect book boyfriend. And I am working on Eddy's story now. I finished the outline and wrote some scenes. It feels really good so far.
Emily: Eddy was really interesting as a character. I'm looking forward to knowing more. And I love that we're getting back towards serialized novels--it feels very Dickensian, although the idea of writing one kind of freaks me out.
Kim: You should try it! So far, it's making me feel more disciplined as a writer.
Emily: Which brings me to the last area I have time for: what's your routine? How are you doing all of this?? Because we know you work. And those lipsticks don't sell themselves.
Kim: I write all weekend, which drives Tord crazy sometimes. Plus, I wake up every weekday at 6AM and write for an hour before I go to work. And if we have a slow period at work, I write scenes there.
Emily: How long have you had this routine? Did you try others?
Kim: I started this routine when I was working on Nanowrimo. I did it so I could reach the 1600 words/day minimum word count to finish on time. It felt so nice to be productive, I just kept it up. Before, I only wrote when I felt inspired, which meant it took me forever to finish anything...if I finished at all.
Emily: And one last question before I have to run because I'm very curious about how others handle this: what do you read while you're writing? That is, in the middle of a project? Can you read similar fiction? Do you stick to something completely different?
Kim: I read everything. I can read similar fiction, I can read thrillers. I love reading so much, so I just read whatever speaks to me.
Emily: Do you ever get any bleed over into your own work, either good or distracting?
Kim: It used to happen, but now it doesn't. When I am focused on my own writing, it almost feels like a movie on repeat in my head.
Emily: Love that image. Maybe Baby did feel very cinematic to me.
Kim: And let's face it...writing about Mads is easy when you're thinking about Nikolaj Coster Waldau.
